The miracle i call "Lord Of The Rings" - Page 122

SarumanTheWhite · 02 Mar 2005, 23:12

Ca sa mai destindem atmosfera, iata ceva amuzant:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...TJ/dropoff.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...J/delivery.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...neTJ/court.jpg

Faenor · 03 Mar 2005, 07:11

This question has been a widely debated, sometimes far too vehemently. Part of the difficulty is the complexity of Tom's literary history. Tom was originally a doll (with blue jacket and yellow boots) owned by Tolkien's son Michael. The doll inspired a story fragment, such as he often invented for his children's amusement. That fragment was in turn the basis for the poem "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil", published in 1933, which also introduced Goldberry, the barrow wights, and Old Man Willow (the poem was the source of the events in Chapters 6 through 8 of Book I). In a contemporary letter (1937) Tolkien explained that Tom was meant to represent 'the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside'.
(The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, no 19)

Tolkien introduced Tom into The Lord of the Rings at a very early stage, when he still thought of it as a sequel to the The Hobbit, as opposed to the The Silmarillion (the tone was changed during the first chapters of The Lord of the Rings). Tom fit the original (slightly childish) tone of the early chapters (which resembled that of the The Hobbit), but as the story progressed it became higher in tone and darker in nature. Tolkien later claimed that he left Tom in he decided that however portrayed Tom provided a necessary ingredient (see last paragraph). Some very cogent reasons are produced in a couple of wonderful letters.
(The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 144 & 153)

As to Tom's nature, there are several schools of thought.

He was a Maia (the most common notion). The reasoning here is plain: given the Middle-earth cast of characters as we know it, this is the most convenient pigeonhole in which to place him (and Goldberry as well) (most of the other individuals in The Lord of the Rings with "mysterious" origins: Gandalf, Sauron, Wizards, and Balrogs did in fact turn out to be Maiar).

He was Ilúvatar. The only support for this notion is on theological grounds: some have interpreted Goldberry's statement to Frodo (F: "Who is Tom Bombadil?" G: "He is.") as a form of the Christian "I am that am", which really could suggest the Creator. Tolkien rejected this interpretation quite firmly.

T.A. Shippey (in The Road to Middle-earth) and others have suggested that Tom is a one-of-a-kind type. This notion received indirect support from Tolkien himself:

"As a story, I think it is good that there should be a lot of things unexplained (especially if an explanation actually exists);
... And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)."
(The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, p. 174)
There are scattered references to other entities which seem to fall outside the usual picture. Whichever of these is correct, Tom's function inside the story was evidently to demonstrate a particular attitude towards control and power.

"The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless."
(The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, p. 178).

Cam asta ar fi un rezumat al posibilelor identitati ale lui Tom. Sunt doar cele mai plauzible sugestii ca am mai citit si mai si....dar despre ele in episodul urmator... :lol: ...anyway as far as I am concerned as zice ca varianta cu Maiar ar fi cea care chiar da o explicatie logica, dar daca e sa fiu realist sunt mai mult decat convins ca Tolkien l-a introdus special atat ca pe un personaj "rezidual" adik favorit si deja cunoscut din alte precedente lucrari, cat si ca pe o "anomalie" in sensul de personaj care echilibreaza lupta dintre bine si rau....un fel de truly neutral (fanii D&D stiu de ce...

) un arbitru in functie de care se definesc binele si raul care au nevoie si ele la urma urmei de un referent.

Gaandalf · 03 Mar 2005, 11:06

ce te-am rugat eu Saruman ?
mi-a dat peste cap toata pagina... nu mai am chef sa citesc nimik ...
pune si tu linkurile...

WraIth · 03 Mar 2005, 14:52

Originally Posted by SarumanTheWhite:

Iata un sfat: Niciodata sa nu te certi cu un idiot. Te injoseste pana ajungi ajungi la nivelul lui.

dar inca nu se cearta nimeni aici...ci se enerveaza, sau mai bine spus ishi pun fiecare piedica unul la altu' sa nu ajungem sa iasa o cearta...roicum nu va ieshi bine din ea

SarumanTheWhite · 03 Mar 2005, 20:13

Originally Posted by Gaandalf:

ce te-am rugat eu Saruman ?
mi-a dat peste cap toata pagina... nu mai am chef sa citesc nimik ...
pune si tu linkurile...

Puneti rezolutia la monitor mai mare... sau cumpara un kil de net cu leu' ala greu

nume · 03 Mar 2005, 20:17

Originally Posted by SarumanTheWhite:

Ca sa mai destindem atmosfera, iata ceva amuzant:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...TJ/dropoff.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...J/delivery.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...neTJ/court.jpg[/url]

:lol:

SarumanTheWhite · 03 Mar 2005, 20:23

Originally Posted by WraIth:

Originally Posted by SarumanTheWhite:

Iata un sfat: Niciodata sa nu te certi cu un idiot. Te injoseste pana ajungi ajungi la nivelul lui.

dar inca nu se cearta nimeni aici...ci se enerveaza, sau mai bine spus ishi pun fiecare piedica unul la altu' sa nu ajungem sa iasa o cearta...roicum nu va ieshi bine din ea

Inca, corect spus. De preferat, noi practicam o tehnica numita trasul de sireturi... da....

WraIth · 03 Mar 2005, 20:47

eram sigur ca va face asta.numa' sa umple spatiul dejaba shi sa se incarce shi greu.dar la mine nu ii problema.am timp

nume · 03 Mar 2005, 20:53

Originally Posted by SarumanTheWhite:

Ca sa mai destindem atmosfera, iata ceva amuzant:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...TJ/dropoff.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...J/delivery.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...neTJ/court.jpg[/url]

ce vrei mah sa fac, daca mi-a placut poza .... :love:

WraIth · 03 Mar 2005, 20:58

doar iti dai seama ca nu vor rezista astea aici nu?!
pana maine seara maxim...

nume · 03 Mar 2005, 20:59

Originally Posted by WraIth:

doar iti dai seama ca nu vor rezista astea aici nu?!
pana maine seara maxim...

eu doar apreciam calitatea glumitei.

WraIth · 03 Mar 2005, 21:22

nu-i asha
intradevar ii chiar destul de reushita faza,ashi mai da shi eu un citat al ea,dar nu mai vad rostul.incepe sa se rasufle

nume · 03 Mar 2005, 21:25

Originally Posted by WraIth:

nu-i asha
intradevar

intr-adevar

WraIth · 03 Mar 2005, 21:39

Originally Posted by nume:

Originally Posted by WraIth:

nu-i asha
intradevar

intr-adevar

ete na ..uite cine-i profesor de romana.mai scapa omului o liniutza,un punct,o virgula,o litera shi lista continua.

----------

acum la topic...gandalfe tu shtii sa traduci din elfa prop!?

SarumanTheWhite · 03 Mar 2005, 21:56

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...sauronprez.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...alf_busted.jpg

http://www.aracnet.com/~ldv/shire420.jpg

Smï¿½agol-Gollum · 03 Mar 2005, 22:14

1.mishto pozele
2.dude, pune linkurile ca ocupi prea mult spatiu...

SarumanTheWhite · 03 Mar 2005, 22:16

Originally Posted by Sméagol-Gollum:

1.mishto pozele
2.dude, pune linkurile ca ocupi prea mult spatiu...

Lasa ca se intampla sa posteze cineva poze o data la un an... nu va fie lene! Puneti mana pe mouse!

Gaandalf · 04 Mar 2005, 12:11

Saruman esti mai prost decat ... (ma asteptam).

nightsorrow · 04 Mar 2005, 16:54

Nu i prost ! Are dreptate...nu toti intra pe link.

WraIth · 04 Mar 2005, 18:37

mda ,dar gata s-a rezolvat

intre timp :
Ringleader
Jedi Master
Karate Elf
Disco King
Legolas Powers
Lord of the Elves
Men and their hair !!!
I wonder...
The Nine Ringwraits !!!

dintre care unele cred ca se shitiu deja.enjoy

02 Mar 2005, 23:12	#2421
SarumanTheWhite Senior Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Orthanc, Isengard Posts: 112	Ca sa mai destindem atmosfera, iata ceva amuzant: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...TJ/dropoff.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...J/delivery.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...neTJ/court.jpg __________________ Un alt forum foarte bun: ComingSoon.Net Forums ~ Filme, Sport, Carti, DVD, Postere, Muzica ~ ~ Va rog sa va inregistrati daca sunteti interesat ~

03 Mar 2005, 07:11	#2422
Faenor Veteran Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 178	This question has been a widely debated, sometimes far too vehemently. Part of the difficulty is the complexity of Tom's literary history. Tom was originally a doll (with blue jacket and yellow boots) owned by Tolkien's son Michael. The doll inspired a story fragment, such as he often invented for his children's amusement. That fragment was in turn the basis for the poem "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil", published in 1933, which also introduced Goldberry, the barrow wights, and Old Man Willow (the poem was the source of the events in Chapters 6 through 8 of Book I). In a contemporary letter (1937) Tolkien explained that Tom was meant to represent 'the spirit of the (vanishing) Oxford and Berkshire countryside'. (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, no 19) Tolkien introduced Tom into The Lord of the Rings at a very early stage, when he still thought of it as a sequel to the The Hobbit, as opposed to the The Silmarillion (the tone was changed during the first chapters of The Lord of the Rings). Tom fit the original (slightly childish) tone of the early chapters (which resembled that of the The Hobbit), but as the story progressed it became higher in tone and darker in nature. Tolkien later claimed that he left Tom in he decided that however portrayed Tom provided a necessary ingredient (see last paragraph). Some very cogent reasons are produced in a couple of wonderful letters. (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 144 & 153) As to Tom's nature, there are several schools of thought. He was a Maia (the most common notion). The reasoning here is plain: given the Middle-earth cast of characters as we know it, this is the most convenient pigeonhole in which to place him (and Goldberry as well) (most of the other individuals in The Lord of the Rings with "mysterious" origins: Gandalf, Sauron, Wizards, and Balrogs did in fact turn out to be Maiar). He was Ilúvatar. The only support for this notion is on theological grounds: some have interpreted Goldberry's statement to Frodo (F: "Who is Tom Bombadil?" G: "He is.") as a form of the Christian "I am that am", which really could suggest the Creator. Tolkien rejected this interpretation quite firmly. T.A. Shippey (in The Road to Middle-earth) and others have suggested that Tom is a one-of-a-kind type. This notion received indirect support from Tolkien himself: "As a story, I think it is good that there should be a lot of things unexplained (especially if an explanation actually exists); ... And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, p. 174) There are scattered references to other entities which seem to fall outside the usual picture. Whichever of these is correct, Tom's function inside the story was evidently to demonstrate a particular attitude towards control and power. "The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have, as it were taken 'a vow of poverty', renounced control, and take delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless." (The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, p. 178). Cam asta ar fi un rezumat al posibilelor identitati ale lui Tom. Sunt doar cele mai plauzible sugestii ca am mai citit si mai si....dar despre ele in episodul urmator... :lol: ...anyway as far as I am concerned as zice ca varianta cu Maiar ar fi cea care chiar da o explicatie logica, dar daca e sa fiu realist sunt mai mult decat convins ca Tolkien l-a introdus special atat ca pe un personaj "rezidual" adik favorit si deja cunoscut din alte precedente lucrari, cat si ca pe o "anomalie" in sensul de personaj care echilibreaza lupta dintre bine si rau....un fel de truly neutral (fanii D&D stiu de ce... ) un arbitru in functie de care se definesc binele si raul care au nevoie si ele la urma urmei de un referent. __________________ "The capacity to learn is a gift; the ability to learn is a skill; the willingness to learn is a choice"-Rebec of Ginaz

03 Mar 2005, 11:06	#2423
Gaandalf The White Rider Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: with charlotte Posts: 4,253	ce te-am rugat eu Saruman ? mi-a dat peste cap toata pagina... nu mai am chef sa citesc nimik ... pune si tu linkurile... __________________ "Hollywood is like a 10 story cock f.ucking everything in it's path ... just like Madonna!"

03 Mar 2005, 20:47	#2428
WraIth WitchKing of Angmar Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: little redneck town Posts: 1,275	eram sigur ca va face asta.numa' sa umple spatiul dejaba shi sa se incarce shi greu.dar la mine nu ii problema.am timp __________________ High life inseamna sa stai o viatza high

03 Mar 2005, 20:58	#2430
WraIth WitchKing of Angmar Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: little redneck town Posts: 1,275	doar iti dai seama ca nu vor rezista astea aici nu?! pana maine seara maxim... __________________ High life inseamna sa stai o viatza high

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03 Mar 2005, 21:22	#2432
WraIth WitchKing of Angmar Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: little redneck town Posts: 1,275	nu-i asha intradevar ii chiar destul de reushita faza,ashi mai da shi eu un citat al ea,dar nu mai vad rostul.incepe sa se rasufle __________________ High life inseamna sa stai o viatza high

03 Mar 2005, 21:56	#2435
SarumanTheWhite Senior Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Orthanc, Isengard Posts: 112	http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...sauronprez.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...alf_busted.jpg http://www.aracnet.com/~ldv/shire420.jpg __________________ Un alt forum foarte bun: ComingSoon.Net Forums ~ Filme, Sport, Carti, DVD, Postere, Muzica ~ ~ Va rog sa va inregistrati daca sunteti interesat ~

03 Mar 2005, 22:14	#2436
Smï¿½agol-Gollum The One and Only Gollum Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: On the edge of WILDERLAND Posts: 2,258	1.mishto pozele 2.dude, pune linkurile ca ocupi prea mult spatiu... __________________ Nice Hobbitses! We's likes them.....yessssssss

04 Mar 2005, 12:11	#2438
Gaandalf The White Rider Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: with charlotte Posts: 4,253	Saruman esti mai prost decat ... (ma asteptam). __________________ "Hollywood is like a 10 story cock f.ucking everything in it's path ... just like Madonna!"

04 Mar 2005, 16:54	#2439
nightsorrow Senior Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Angmar Posts: 135	Nu i prost ! Are dreptate...nu toti intra pe link.

04 Mar 2005, 18:37	#2440
WraIth WitchKing of Angmar Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: little redneck town Posts: 1,275	mda ,dar gata s-a rezolvat intre timp : Ringleader Jedi Master Karate Elf Disco King Legolas Powers Lord of the Elves Men and their hair !!! I wonder... The Nine Ringwraits !!! dintre care unele cred ca se shitiu deja.enjoy __________________ High life inseamna sa stai o viatza high

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