Persona lui Ingmar Bergman

[karenin08]

M-am uitat azi la film si,spre surprinderea mea,n-am reusit sa-i inteleg mesajul in totalitate,iar multe imagini de inceput,cum ar fi penisul,cuiul in mana si animalul taiat raman un mister.Replica de final "Nothing" este si ea supusa multor interpretari subiective pe internet.In acest tread as dori sa vad ce interpretari ati gasit voi filmului si a anumitor indicii si detalii sau simboluri(cui,copil,mana,cartea pe care o citea copilul,poza la care se uita acesta,penisul etc.)Nu este un film usor si de aceea i-am deschis un tread separat pentru a putea fi digerat mai usor de catre cei care l-au vazut si doresc sa-l inteleaga!

[Liviu-]

Cauta si pe aici: http://www.cinemagia.ro/forum/showthread.php?t=85623&page=3&highlight=bergman E posibil sa gasesti ceva.

[karenin08]

Cauta si pe aici: http://www.cinemagia.ro/forum/showthread.php?t=85623&page=3&highlight=bergman E posibil sa gasesti ceva.Multumesc!

[oneflyride]

Nu-i cel mai bun film pentru a incepe cu Bergman :-S

Oricum , uite si cateva interpretari posibile :

First, you must understand that Elizabeth is the person, and Sister Alma is the persona. There are plenty of indications of this throughout the film, in both content and form.

Elizabeth has an identity, she is an actress with a husband and son. She is quiet and contemplative because she is the external aspect of the person. Alma represents the inner turmoil, the self conflict. Elizabeth is studying her (the letter), just like anyone experiencing introspection.

Alma screams that she is constantly changing, this is because, while Elizabeth will never change in appearance, her persona is constantly changing. Alma leaving on the bus, right after shots of a film crew, indicate the transitive nature of that persona; Alma leaves, and, like an actress who has finished performing a role, Elizabeth's persona changes - Alma is no more. Elizabeth is an actress, but it's indicative of the personality of human beings in general - we are all acting, always fulfilling a role, and, in doing that role, we create a real, definable character of ourselves, through our actions - this is our persona.

Sister Alma is called 'Sister' Alma because, while the two aspects are actually one, Alma is the supervenient one, a kind of 'tag a long', the inner, sister, part of Elizabeth. In the one scene where Alma is seen with Elizabeth's husband, we see Alma, but this is superimposed with images of Elizabeth. We're seeing the persona, but the actual person is Elizabeth. This is why Alma suddenly realizes that it's her lover, because it is, and always has been.

Since Elizabeth's husband's name is left out, it's likely that the name Alma gives her fiance (can't remember it at the moment) is actually the name of Elizabeth's husband. (Seeing as they are two aspects of the same identity). The son that exists, despite the attempts to abort, is Elizabeth's real son; Alma's story about having an abortion is Elizabeth's persona, her conscience finding a way to hide itself from having a son, out of fear.

The film speaks in metaphor, this is a function of art. It's neither necessarily linear, in time, actual, dream - It's a film, it should be treated as such. The scenes are there to convey something - an idea, an image, a meaning - and Bergman uses form to do this in the most effective manner. It doesn't all have to make sense on a literal level, it's the experience that matters.


This is a personal interpretation to this amazing movie, one that does not need of any kind of literal logic to perfectly make sense and convey what is trying to express.

Carl Jung was a swiss pychiatrist and psychologist, father of the "analytical psychology.

The bases of Jung's work were in the form components of the psyche, represented through "archetypes", ancestral images in the collective unconsciousness. But because of the difficulty in explaining and conceptualizing the "archetype", I'm just gonna define some concepts in Jung's work like the Archetype "persona" (the mask) and other components of the human psyche: shadow and self.

In my explanation of the movie, I believe that Elisabeth Vogler and Alma are two components of the same person. Elisabeth is the "Persona", how we present ourselves to others, a mask that acts as protection and conceals our "Self" (our real identity, the consciousness of being, the container of our morals, ethics and personality) from damage or rejection. Alma is the "shadow" (the word "Alma" in spanish means "Soul", so helps this theory by making her an entity inside the physical body of Elisabeth), the part that does not necessarily represent us or is hidden in our personality, things that we have but don't generally identify with (i.e: selfishness, agressiveness or kindness if the Self is generally agressive).

The Persona: Elisabeth Vogler doesn't speak, she looks rather calm almost everytime (except when she's in danger like when Alma was going to throw hot water on her), she pretends not to talk, she's an actress.

The Shadow: Alma speaks a lot, does some morally questionable things (having sex in the beach with strangers, not picking up the glass in the floor and not warning Elisabeth about it), she gets bitter and bitter with every minute.

Alma could be a mixture of the real Self and Shadow as well.

The Self (the real Elisabeth Vogler) is tormented, troubled because the Persona and the Shadow are in conflict, the contrast between them is so big the Self feels lost, can't find the balance between what Elisabeth is and how she presents herself to others and the struggle with dark feelings. She lets the exterior mask and the dark side of the soul to fight and reach an agreement.

Alma says that she had an abortion, and Elisabeth gave birth to a child she does not love. The Self deep inside didn't want the child, and the shadow presents the option of an abortion, something considered abominant, the Persona has the child cause she wants to prove she can be a good mother (presenting itself as a good person to others and comforming with society rules).

The doctor in the beginning tells Alma to take Elisabeth to her beach house, so I take that She did go to the Beach house to rest and get better, but besides this fact, the house could have other meanings, like it could represent the physical body of Elisabeth with the two sides inside it fighting. Or maybe represent the isolation of the real Elisabeth hoping to find peace away from anyone so she doesn't have to pretend anymore, but she can't control no longer when to or not to pretend, so she begins this conflict in her head (Alma and her husband being product of her mind) while inside the house, where nobody can see her or be judged.

[karenin08]

Nu-i cel mai bun film pentru a incepe cu Bergman :-S

Oricum , uite si cateva interpretari posibile :

First, you must understand that Elizabeth is the person, and Sister Alma is the persona. There are plenty of indications of this throughout the film, in both content and form.

Elizabeth has an identity, she is an actress with a husband and son. She is quiet and contemplative because she is the external aspect of the person. Alma represents the inner turmoil, the self conflict. Elizabeth is studying her (the letter), just like anyone experiencing introspection.

Alma screams that she is constantly changing, this is because, while Elizabeth will never change in appearance, her persona is constantly changing. Alma leaving on the bus, right after shots of a film crew, indicate the transitive nature of that persona; Alma leaves, and, like an actress who has finished performing a role, Elizabeth's persona changes - Alma is no more. Elizabeth is an actress, but it's indicative of the personality of human beings in general - we are all acting, always fulfilling a role, and, in doing that role, we create a real, definable character of ourselves, through our actions - this is our persona.

Sister Alma is called 'Sister' Alma because, while the two aspects are actually one, Alma is the supervenient one, a kind of 'tag a long', the inner, sister, part of Elizabeth. In the one scene where Alma is seen with Elizabeth's husband, we see Alma, but this is superimposed with images of Elizabeth. We're seeing the persona, but the actual person is Elizabeth. This is why Alma suddenly realizes that it's her lover, because it is, and always has been.

Since Elizabeth's husband's name is left out, it's likely that the name Alma gives her fiance (can't remember it at the moment) is actually the name of Elizabeth's husband. (Seeing as they are two aspects of the same identity). The son that exists, despite the attempts to abort, is Elizabeth's real son; Alma's story about having an abortion is Elizabeth's persona, her conscience finding a way to hide itself from having a son, out of fear.

The film speaks in metaphor, this is a function of art. It's neither necessarily linear, in time, actual, dream - It's a film, it should be treated as such. The scenes are there to convey something - an idea, an image, a meaning - and Bergman uses form to do this in the most effective manner. It doesn't all have to make sense on a literal level, it's the experience that matters.


This is a personal interpretation to this amazing movie, one that does not need of any kind of literal logic to perfectly make sense and convey what is trying to express.

Carl Jung was a swiss pychiatrist and psychologist, father of the "analytical psychology.

The bases of Jung's work were in the form components of the psyche, represented through "archetypes", ancestral images in the collective unconsciousness. But because of the difficulty in explaining and conceptualizing the "archetype", I'm just gonna define some concepts in Jung's work like the Archetype "persona" (the mask) and other components of the human psyche: shadow and self.

In my explanation of the movie, I believe that Elisabeth Vogler and Alma are two components of the same person. Elisabeth is the "Persona", how we present ourselves to others, a mask that acts as protection and conceals our "Self" (our real identity, the consciousness of being, the container of our morals, ethics and personality) from damage or rejection. Alma is the "shadow" (the word "Alma" in spanish means "Soul", so helps this theory by making her an entity inside the physical body of Elisabeth), the part that does not necessarily represent us or is hidden in our personality, things that we have but don't generally identify with (i.e: selfishness, agressiveness or kindness if the Self is generally agressive).

The Persona: Elisabeth Vogler doesn't speak, she looks rather calm almost everytime (except when she's in danger like when Alma was going to throw hot water on her), she pretends not to talk, she's an actress.

The Shadow: Alma speaks a lot, does some morally questionable things (having sex in the beach with strangers, not picking up the glass in the floor and not warning Elisabeth about it), she gets bitter and bitter with every minute.

Alma could be a mixture of the real Self and Shadow as well.

The Self (the real Elisabeth Vogler) is tormented, troubled because the Persona and the Shadow are in conflict, the contrast between them is so big the Self feels lost, can't find the balance between what Elisabeth is and how she presents herself to others and the struggle with dark feelings. She lets the exterior mask and the dark side of the soul to fight and reach an agreement.

Alma says that she had an abortion, and Elisabeth gave birth to a child she does not love. The Self deep inside didn't want the child, and the shadow presents the option of an abortion, something considered abominant, the Persona has the child cause she wants to prove she can be a good mother (presenting itself as a good person to others and comforming with society rules).

The doctor in the beginning tells Alma to take Elisabeth to her beach house, so I take that She did go to the Beach house to rest and get better, but besides this fact, the house could have other meanings, like it could represent the physical body of Elisabeth with the two sides inside it fighting. Or maybe represent the isolation of the real Elisabeth hoping to find peace away from anyone so she doesn't have to pretend anymore, but she can't control no longer when to or not to pretend, so she begins this conflict in her head (Alma and her husband being product of her mind) while inside the house, where nobody can see her or be judged. Multumesc si tie!