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Daydream · 07 Jun 2003, 02:26

I had a dream that I was trying to login to reality, to hack in through one of its gates... but I woke up to my normal sleep...

Ok, snapping back to forum business...:-)

I have read countless posts on many forums. I've been thinking. Reading... Thinking... Reading... Thinking... Maybe many went to see Reloaded expecting it to be the original Matrix^2. Disregarding many hints from all the trailers. Reloaded is different, it’s not the first Matrix movie. There we had some mind-bending ideas and only a handful of people to deliver them to our eyes. In Reloaded we got too many ideas and many of them don't clarify here but, most sure, in Revolutions. Only here in Reloaded we start to have a grasp on what is at stake, the life of hundreds of thousands (Zion), millions (sleeping in oblivion in the Matrix). Price of life is supreme, nobody can gamble with that... nobody but One, upon witch the burden of choice will be left... and the implacable moment of the choice he has to make is foreshadowed to him from the beginning... so please don't ask why he didn't make too many tongue-in-chick jokes...

In Reloaded the implications multiply, without asking the spectator if he is up to speed with the Wachowsky's minds. “I didn't like that, Keanu's haircut looks bad!" So what??? There are many, maybe too many things to explain, to get a grip on what one should consider "facts". It is almost impossible to stay with the facts. Your mind is bound to start jumping barriers...

1. In the first Matrix Neo is awakening to a crude, brutal reality. In Reloaded he is the one to reveal an even higher truth. But WHAT IS TRUTH?

2. In the first movie Trinity calls Neo back from the grasp of a virtual generated death, with a kiss, with her love, with her belief, with a power of a bound that defies limits. In Reloaded Neo doesn't let her go; the bound is yet again too strong for... that kind of death. Interesting. First time around an action in the real saves one killed in the virtual. Second time an action in the virtual does that. The level of interaction seems to go either way. Some were debating that in Reloaded Neo is so strong that he disrupted the signal that told Trinity "DIE!", "You're dead!" and bring her back to life. But how did it work the first time, I mean not considering the Christian side of the scene...? Hmmm...

3. On the Oracle, the Architect, even... counselor Hamann. Gee, this is gonna be big. CAN WE TRUST THEM??? Once again, WHAT IS THE TRUTH? They could all say things to deceive Neo. Or not. Or some part is lie some part is truth (really devilish that way). Or everything is aimed to a higher understanding that we, as spectators, are not allowed to know yet. But one thing is for sure: what they say, those things make Neo think. And one can argue that once he does that - the controversy of choice-control is resolved. You see, I cannot forget the vase. "Don't worry about the vase." "What vase?" Bang! "That vase." "But what will bake your noodles later is would you have still broken it if I didn't say anything?" (approx. quotes) The Oracle tells Neo he is not the One and he becomes the One. The Architect tells Neo that he’s to blame for a total system crash, and the extinction of the entire human race. Yet again Neo “ascend” (???) to a level of new & great abilities in… reality (ermm, well… to say so). The difference between knowing the path and walking the path. The moment of the observer. This seems to be a very interesting concept in quantum physics but I won't bore you with it. Bottom line you do not observe, you do not exists -> things have one way of being. You observe -> you change the way things are just by doing that. This can really spin up your mind. Is there really free will? Is there really choice? I've read in another forum this interesting dilemma: if the Oracle is omniscient, all knowing, or if God is, for that matter, whatever you do that is known before you do it. Thus, there will always be predetermination. No really free choice.

4. What is REAL? Some started that idea of a Matrix within a Matrix, a dream within a dream. A Zion-reality that is no more than an alternative construct for the 1% that don't accept the Matrix reality as it is. I watched the Architect speech countless times. There is nothing to really sustain that assumption...

But...: " And we have become exceedingly efficient at (destroying) it”. This is gonna be the 6th time they destroy Zion. No shit!?!? 6th time??? If REAL, that would mean this is not 21xx year as Morpheus presumed in the first movie because it is not possible to believe Zion city was build by snapping fingers. We should be hundreds of years later...

But if the Zion-reality is virtual, it’s just another construct... Then everything explains! The kiss to wake-up people from the dead, the stopping of the machines at the end of Reloaded... everything!

Only that somehow, just somehow, it doesn't work. I don't know why, but the story doesn't hold that, what we've been told so far is not enough for that, and to make Zion an alternate construct just by what we know so far it doesn't look like Wachowsky. There should be a bigger, better plot ahead, and we're only scratching our heads with bits of insufficient information...:-)

Besides there is kind of a logical answer, although too simplistic for my taste, posted on numerous pages outside: if the anomaly is systemic, there should be a One that wakes up from Zion to the real-real. This is not the case. So no Matrix within Matrix... so far! :-)

5. How Many Matrixes? This is really interesting. What happened to the other, old Matrixes? The Architect never used words like reboot or restart, that were used by fans on the forums. The Architect told about a dissemination of the code Neo carries and reinserting the prime program. So, does the Matrix reset or not? They should be different in a major way; the first one was perfect; the rest adjusted to a more imperfect, human-like environment. If yes, I'm wondering how can Merovingian and some of his guards know about, or came from, older versions of the Matrix, how can he know about the other ONEs?? How can agent Smith know about the older Matrix (even if he seems to be deceived, he didn't know about all of the older versions)? Does code transcends code? A reboot means a complete restart, not patchwork, not upgrading!

Well, although my thoughts are still running miles my fingers also start burning…:-) As 2 last mentions: 1) Hugo Weaving deserves great praise in my opinion for the way he delivered his speech before the courtyard melee; 2) Revolutions trailer opens up some really interesting possibilities. Again Hugo Weaving as Agent Smith laughing in what seems to be Oracle’s kitchen is perplexing by the between-the-lines meaning…!

07 Jun 2003, 02:26	#99
Daydream Junior Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 31	*I had a dream that I was trying to login to reality, to hack in through one of its gates... but I woke up to my normal sleep...* Ok, snapping back to forum business...:-) I have read countless posts on many forums. I've been thinking. Reading... Thinking... Reading... Thinking... Maybe many went to see Reloaded expecting it to be the original Matrix^2. Disregarding many hints from all the trailers. Reloaded is different, it’s not the first Matrix movie. There we had some mind-bending ideas and only a handful of people to deliver them to our eyes. In Reloaded we got too many ideas and many of them don't clarify here but, most sure, in Revolutions. Only here in Reloaded we start to have a grasp on what is at stake, the life of hundreds of thousands (Zion), millions (sleeping in oblivion in the Matrix). Price of life is supreme, nobody can gamble with that... nobody but One, upon witch the burden of choice will be left... and the implacable moment of the choice he has to make is foreshadowed to him from the beginning... so please don't ask why he didn't make too many tongue-in-chick jokes... In Reloaded the implications multiply, without asking the spectator if he is up to speed with the Wachowsky's minds. “I didn't like that, Keanu's haircut looks bad!" So what??? There are many, maybe too many things to explain, to get a grip on what one should consider "facts". It is almost impossible to stay with the facts. Your mind is bound to start jumping barriers... 1. In the first Matrix Neo is awakening to a crude, brutal reality. In Reloaded he is the one to reveal an even higher truth. But WHAT IS TRUTH? 2. In the first movie Trinity calls Neo back from the grasp of a virtual generated death, with a kiss, with her love, with her belief, with a power of a bound that defies limits. In Reloaded Neo doesn't let her go; the bound is yet again too strong for... that kind of death. Interesting. First time around an action in the real saves one killed in the virtual. Second time an action in the virtual does that. The level of interaction seems to go either way. Some were debating that in Reloaded Neo is so strong that he disrupted the signal that told Trinity "DIE!", "You're dead!" and bring her back to life. But how did it work the first time, I mean not considering the Christian side of the scene...? Hmmm... 3. On the Oracle, the Architect, even... counselor Hamann. Gee, this is gonna be big. CAN WE TRUST THEM??? Once again, WHAT IS THE TRUTH? They could all say things to deceive Neo. Or not. Or some part is lie some part is truth (really devilish that way). Or everything is aimed to a higher understanding that we, as spectators, are not allowed to know yet. But one thing is for sure: what they say, those things make Neo think. And one can argue that once he does that - the controversy of choice-control is resolved. You see, I cannot forget the vase. "Don't worry about the vase." "What vase?" Bang! "That vase." "But what will bake your noodles later is would you have still broken it if I didn't say anything?" (approx. quotes) The Oracle tells Neo he is not the One and he becomes the One. The Architect tells Neo that he’s to blame for a total system crash, and the extinction of the entire human race. Yet again Neo “ascend” (???) to a level of new & great abilities in… reality (ermm, well… to say so). The difference between knowing the path and walking the path. The moment of the observer. This seems to be a very interesting concept in quantum physics but I won't bore you with it. Bottom line you do not observe, you do not exists -> things have one way of being. You observe -> you change the way things are just by doing that. This can really spin up your mind. Is there really free will? Is there really choice? I've read in another forum this interesting dilemma: if the Oracle is omniscient, all knowing, or if God is, for that matter, whatever you do that is known before you do it. Thus, there will always be predetermination. No really free choice. 4. What is REAL? Some started that idea of a Matrix within a Matrix, a dream within a dream. A Zion-reality that is no more than an alternative construct for the 1% that don't accept the Matrix reality as it is. I watched the Architect speech countless times. There is nothing to really sustain that assumption... But...: " And we have become exceedingly efficient at (destroying) it”. This is gonna be the 6th time they destroy Zion. No shit!?!? 6th time??? If REAL, that would mean this is not 21xx year as Morpheus presumed in the first movie because it is not possible to believe Zion city was build by snapping fingers. We should be hundreds of years later... But if the Zion-reality is virtual, it’s just another construct... Then everything explains! The kiss to wake-up people from the dead, the stopping of the machines at the end of Reloaded... everything! Only that somehow, just somehow, it doesn't work. I don't know why, but the story doesn't hold that, what we've been told so far is not enough for that, and to make Zion an alternate construct just by what we know so far it doesn't look like Wachowsky. There should be a bigger, better plot ahead, and we're only scratching our heads with bits of insufficient information...:-) Besides there is kind of a logical answer, although too simplistic for my taste, posted on numerous pages outside: if the anomaly is systemic, there should be a One that wakes up from Zion to the real-real. This is not the case. So no Matrix within Matrix... so far! :-) 5. How Many Matrixes? This is really interesting. What happened to the other, old Matrixes? The Architect never used words like reboot or restart, that were used by fans on the forums. The Architect told about a dissemination of the code Neo carries and reinserting the prime program. So, does the Matrix reset or not? They should be different in a major way; the first one was perfect; the rest adjusted to a more imperfect, human-like environment. If yes, I'm wondering how can Merovingian and some of his guards know about, or came from, older versions of the Matrix, how can he know about the other ONEs?? How can agent Smith know about the older Matrix (even if he seems to be deceived, he didn't know about all of the older versions)? Does code transcends code? A reboot means a complete restart, not patchwork, not upgrading! Well, although my thoughts are still running miles my fingers also start burning…:-) As 2 last mentions: 1) Hugo Weaving deserves great praise in my opinion for the way he delivered his speech before the courtyard melee; 2) Revolutions trailer opens up some really interesting possibilities. Again Hugo Weaving as Agent Smith laughing in what seems to be Oracle’s kitchen is perplexing by the between-the-lines meaning…!